stranger
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Post by stranger on Mar 4, 2013 15:40:16 GMT -7
By the looks of it half of the community are under the age of 14 so if the members are grandfathered in will we still need our parents there?
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Post by bb on Mar 4, 2013 15:53:56 GMT -7
Why we made the rule was for several reasons. To mave an older and more mature community. And to not have a huge liability with young kids running around with adults without their own guardians around. We all know you stranger and know that your a good kid and ok with getting shot in the face, raptor bringing you to every game assumes the position as your guardian and he will be the one who has to make the call for your medical decisions if your un conscious, like calling an ambulance. It costs money and noone wants a fine on their hands. So all 15 and below year old kids will have to have a guardian 18 or older. For instance. I am gambits, forests, and swabys guardian. I introduced them all to the community and I bring them most days. If any of them where to get hurt and the parents weren't in contact I would have to make the decision to call the police or ambulance or any other medical decision. I know it sucks for you younger kids. But if something did happen and you had no guardian. Everyone on our community would be getting calls from your parents or police and noone wants that. It's best you are brought by a guardian that your parents allow to take you and assume all responsibility for you. For legal purposes.
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BIRD
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Post by BIRD on Mar 4, 2013 16:11:42 GMT -7
i think it will be a big help for the younger guys that want to come out but cant have their parents or guardian come with them is a waiver that says EX; "my child is ok to play airsoft. i have read the JTF208 community rules and the dangers of MILSIM airsoft. there for i understand that JTF208 is not responsible for my childs injuries if there should ever be one. in the case of an emergency please call ______ phone #_______ ok to call ambulance for emergency assistance? y/n" but this brings up the rule that no child can be dropped off by the parents and be left... i dunno what to do bout that. what do you guys think of the waiver? i just hope this new rule doesnt effect the amount of players we have, i know most of these players in the community are well informed of the dangers and im sure they are tough enough to take a hit in the face close range and not go home and cry to mommy. i could be in charge of getting waiver from kids under 16. play with honor, integrity, and dont forget to watch out for bird shit
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stranger
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Weapon of choice a lawn mower and weed whacker
Posts: 628
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Post by stranger on Mar 4, 2013 16:32:36 GMT -7
I understand your point but I do think the waiver idea would work
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Post by bb on Mar 4, 2013 17:25:43 GMT -7
The problem is not about crying but about them getting an eye shot out or breaking an arm. Those type of injuries costs thousands of dollars and don't think that parents aren't going to want to pay for it, they will look for a way to sue the community or player responsible. Lawyers could breeze though waivers. The whole reason I couldn't start an airsoft field last year. Waivers don't cover anything. Even if the family signed it. If your little brother or son got his eye shot out and was blind for the rest of his life wouldn't you want to take legal action? I know you don't think your parents will try to sue but it's not only you we are worried about stranger. It's our own well being as a community not to get shit down from a kid getting hurt. All of our asses are on the line
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Post by GOOSE on Mar 4, 2013 17:52:46 GMT -7
Waivers are not good idea. Unless bird puts in the waiver he takes responsibility for defending it if it gets challenged. Belive most lawers start with a 5000 dollar retainer. Or take out insurance that will cover most not all of the final costs Your choice bird
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Post by Cowpie on Mar 4, 2013 17:57:50 GMT -7
I will be working on a permission slip to dissuade persons from a lawsuit in the event of such a tragedy. However this is a document you will need to present, signed for record keeping. Or you can bring your parents and they can follow you. Your choice, but we older members cannot afford to risk lawsuit because of the poor decisions some younger members may make.
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Post by bb on Mar 4, 2013 18:11:52 GMT -7
With a permission slip it still needs someone to be "in charge" of their son or daughter. Like a guardian. I sure don't want that responsibility. How about this, like goose said. If someone wants to put their name on the line then do a permission slip. If noone is willing to, then we know its a bad idea. Agreed?
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Post by bb on Mar 4, 2013 18:14:26 GMT -7
Don't think I'm against birdmans or cowpies ideas because I really do wish it was that easy. But I just don't wanna see one of you guys get sued for everything you own because of another players actions. If you can find a way to do it then awesome I hope You do. Wouldn't it just be easier to have their parents come out for 2 hours for 1 day a week. Or at least a guardian for that kid? No legal document needed
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Post by MAK on Mar 4, 2013 18:27:47 GMT -7
I talked to my dad abput it and he said he could sign a release form saying that h wont sue anyone and that he will be held accountable for any injuries. Would that work?
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Post by turtle on Mar 4, 2013 18:38:16 GMT -7
Yes I need that to because my dad definately cannot come out because he can't run because when he was young he broke his hip he had a replacement but it is very difficult for him to run for long periods of time so I think we need some kind of release form that doesnot hold the JTF208 community accountable for injuries.
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Post by Dropshot on Mar 4, 2013 19:57:20 GMT -7
Waivers are a good idea, but you have to remember this is not Jump Time. We are outside in the Boise public lands shooting projectiles at each other. Skeletor brings up a good point. Lawyers are paid to win, they will rip apart any waiver and find some type of way to get around it. Even if that kid follows the rules there is always that chance that a BB will come flying in and take an eye out. That is dangerous because there was no one to witness what happened and I am pretty sure most of us do not want to take responsibility for a that. As much as I would like to go out alone, I still feel that if my eye was shot out that I would be entitled to some type of compensation, if I followed the rules. My viewpoint is from a 15 year old teenager, although I will be able to go alone after the 17th of March. Waivers are a good idea but, they have to be rock solid and cover every aspect of the game.
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Post by bb on Mar 4, 2013 20:42:30 GMT -7
Lol think u mean bb. But exactly, lawyers will go right through a waiver if they are paid too. Turtle and anyone else who is under 16. If you get dropped off by a parent. That parent needs To talk to an adult and tell us face to face in person that our community assumes no risk of legal action if bodily harm is done to their son or daughter, give us contact information ,sign a waiver and assign someone as a guardian incase we can't reach anyone to make a medical desion. If they can't do as much as that then the kid cannot play until done. And it needs to be the current mother or father or step mother or father. Not brother or sister
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Post by MAK on Mar 4, 2013 20:49:57 GMT -7
Good point bb that sounds fair enough i can get my dad to do that.
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stranger
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Post by stranger on Mar 4, 2013 20:52:01 GMT -7
I can live with that
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Post by bb on Mar 4, 2013 21:11:02 GMT -7
That's just what I think, I can't make rules for the community so next game we'll vote on it. Have your parents talk to a leader just incasee though
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Post by Bushmaster on Mar 4, 2013 21:18:01 GMT -7
Agreed
Sent from my SCH-I535 using proboards
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BIRD
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Post by BIRD on Mar 5, 2013 8:17:17 GMT -7
Lol think u mean bb. But exactly, lawyers will go right through a waiver if they are paid too. Turtle and anyone else who is under 16. If you get dropped off by a parent. That parent needs To talk to an adult and tell us face to face in person that our community assumes no risk of legal action if bodily harm is done to their son or daughter, give us contact information ,sign a waiver and assign someone as a guardian incase we can't reach anyone to make a medical desion. If they can't do as much as that then the kid cannot play until done. And it needs to be the current mother or father or step mother or father. Not brother or sister so were having the parents sign a waiver that says JTF208 and its affiliates assume no responsibility if their child gets injuered.... but this time the parent or guardian has to come out and meet us and say its ok? play with honor, integrity, and dont forget to watch out for bird shit
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Post by GOOSE on Mar 5, 2013 8:51:08 GMT -7
You can talk to me sat. I will explain it
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BIRD
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Post by BIRD on Mar 5, 2013 9:52:28 GMT -7
ill be out next game. whatever works tho guys. i just dont want to lose any players. im sure there is a way that 16 and under can come out to play with us.. play with honor, integrity, and dont forget to watch out for bird shit
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Post by Dropshot on Mar 5, 2013 10:50:12 GMT -7
Lol think u mean bb. But exactly, lawyers will go right through a waiver if they are paid too. Turtle and anyone else who is under 16. If you get dropped off by a parent. That parent needs To talk to an adult and tell us face to face in person that our community assumes no risk of legal action if bodily harm is done to their son or daughter, give us contact information ,sign a waiver and assign someone as a guardian incase we can't reach anyone to make a medical desion. If they can't do as much as that then the kid cannot play until done. And it needs to be the current mother or father or step mother or father. Not brother or sister Sorry the pic throws me off
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Post by Winke on Mar 5, 2013 11:25:37 GMT -7
Saw this online and maybe it can work for us too. "All players must be 16 years old or older to participate. Players 12-15 are allowed only with parent,guardian or pre-approved adult sponsor. Players under eighteen years old are required to have a Parental Waiver signed and dated ON LOCATION by their parent or legal guardian. NO EXCEPTIONS." And this too: www.zulu24.com/Documents/Waiver.pdf
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Post by Myagi on Mar 5, 2013 12:06:49 GMT -7
Lol think u mean bb. But exactly, lawyers will go right through a waiver if they are paid too. Turtle and anyone else who is under 16. If you get dropped off by a parent. That parent needs To talk to an adult and tell us face to face in person that our community assumes no risk of legal action if bodily harm is done to their son or daughter, give us contact information ,sign a waiver and assign someone as a guardian incase we can't reach anyone to make a medical desion. If they can't do as much as that then the kid cannot play until done. And it needs to be the current mother or father or step mother or father. Not brother or sister This is exactly how it should be. If I had kids, I sure as hell would not drop them off with a bunch of strangers I did not know without introducing myself and exchanging info with whoever was in charge or organizers of the community. I think the players under 16, who do not already have a guardian, need to introduce their parents to the senior community members so we can exchange info. I think until this happens, these players should not be allowed to play at a JTF-208 event. Not trying to ruin anyone's Saturdays, but you younger players do not understand responsibility, how the legal system works, or how a lawsuit could ruin one of our(older players') lives. If it were up to me this would be an 18 and up Airsoft League, that way no one would need to worry about this and we could all just play airsoft. But it is not up to me, so it is only fair that the adult players are able to protect their families' financial futures. That is all. -Myagi- -AOA-
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BIRD
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Post by BIRD on Mar 6, 2013 10:11:04 GMT -7
my buddy is a lawyer im going to ask him what we can do and if the waiver is sufficient enough to protect us from getting sued. ill get back to ya.. play with honor, integrity, and dont forget to watch out for bird shit
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Post by bb on Mar 6, 2013 10:44:37 GMT -7
How or where should we keep contact info? Make the kid have it on his person at every event in a pouch or pocket? So we could find it on him if something were to happen. Give consent form to both team leaders, with parent signature
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BIRD
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Post by BIRD on Mar 6, 2013 14:16:14 GMT -7
Saw this online and maybe it can work for us too. "All players must be 16 years old or older to participate. Players 12-15 are allowed only with parent,guardian or pre-approved adult sponsor. Players under eighteen years old are required to have a Parental Waiver signed and dated ON LOCATION by their parent or legal guardian. NO EXCEPTIONS." And this too: www.zulu24.com/Documents/Waiver.pdfafter talking to my buddy who is a lawyer he told me that yes anybody or everybody can be held responsible for the persons injury not just the player who did it. now theres many different types of injuries that could happen so the player who fell on a log and broke his ankle could sue the promoters or host, or field owner (junkyard, village). he said the best thing you can do is the waiver form. and it has to have a "release of liability" on it so that they cannot sue if something happens. the waiver must be signed in front of the community leaders or whoever and acknowledge that his kid is properly wearing safety gear. i think winke attachment waiver is a good start. but also it has to be a legal documentation meaning a lawyer has to write it up, which costs upwards of 300-400 dollars. play with honor, integrity, and dont forget to watch out for bird shit
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Post by bb on Mar 6, 2013 16:23:27 GMT -7
Lets have a team discussion Saturday
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Post by GOOSE on Mar 6, 2013 17:05:27 GMT -7
Again. Talk to me on this not on forums.
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Post by turtle on Mar 6, 2013 18:22:08 GMT -7
hey can i still play this game as long as i get raptor to be my guardian my parents already know and trust raptor
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BIRD
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Post by BIRD on Mar 7, 2013 7:59:51 GMT -7
im not going to be at this weeks game. i guess post what you guys figure out., nevermind bb and skele fixed my gun and ill be at the meeting play with honor, integrity, and dont forget to watch out for bird shit
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